The U.S. Navy SEAL Trident
Several sources are reporting the U.S. Navy SEALs are adopting the Glock 19 as the standard-issue sidearm, replacing the venerable SIG SAUER P226 pistols the Teams have used for many years. This announcement is likely to fuel an already very hot debate over the value of Glock pistols. Though the SEAL Teams have had a few Glocks in their inventories, this is the first report that the Glock will become the standard-issue sidearm over the SIG.
Never-Ending Glock Debate
Ever since Glock entered the firearm market there have been supporters and detractors. Perhaps like no other debate about pistols, the two sides of the Glock debate have avid members who are adamant about their beliefs and vigorously opine their opinions for all who will hear. Anyone taking the other side is labeled an idiot who “obviously” don’t understand firearms. The only real comparison firearm debate is the half-century-old debate over which military rifle is the best: AR-15 or AK-47.
This YouTube video from Denny Ducet purports to have knowledge of the official SEAL transition to the Glock 19. Though unconfirmed it would appear some frogmen are indeed packing Glock 19’s.
Glock-N-SEALs
If confirmed, the transition of the SEALs (Sea Air And Land) from the Sig Sauer P226 Mk25 to the Glock 19 could send an ever-increasing ripple through the handgun market. At a time when the U.S. Military is considering a new combat handgun, the FBI has put out an RFP for a new pistol, and several other countries are in the market, the nod by one of the world’s most elite special forces units could have far-reaching effects beyond the few hundred who wear the Trident.
A Navy SEAL with the Sig Sauer P226 Mk25 (photo by SEALs).
Transitioning to the Glock 19 may not be as much of a stretch as some may imagine. Glocks have proven themselves accurate, simple, and reliable pistols for 30 years, and are already in the hands of dozens of militaries around the globe. Glocks are much lighter, and slightly smaller than the all-metal Sig Sauer P226, making them attractive to a SEAL having to carry a heavy load already. In addition, Glocks have already been in the inventory of SEAL and other Special Forces units as optional sidearms making them a familiar sidearm.
The big news is that the SEALs are now making the Glock 19 their official duty issue sidearm over the Sig Sauer P226 Mk25.
The SEALs have used the P226 Mk25 for over 10 years (photo by SEALs).
The Glock 19, like all Glocks, is simple to field strip and maintain. The Glock only has 34 parts, and can still function in one manner or another even if (11) of those parts fail or are taken out of the pistol. That’s nearly 1/3 of the parts missing, and still maintaining its lethal capacity. Really amazing, and a testimony to the Glock design. For those who fight in some of the most difficult terrain and combat areas, that type of reliability speaks volumes. Simply put – Glocks work!
Glock has marine versions that change the spring cups to vented ones, allowing water that enters the firearm’s internals to quickly run out as the pistol is removed from the water. This allows safe firing almost immediately after a SEAL departs his watery entry point. The polymer frame and hard-coating (formerly Tenifer, now likely Melonite), provide excellent protection from the salty water, and sandy places SEALs often have to work in.
The mid-size Glock 19 is smaller and lighter than the P226, but still packs 15+1 capacity.
Glocks do not have an external safety lever, making them ready to fire as soon as they are drawn, yet maintain (3) internal safeties that prevent inadvertent firing if the pistol is dropped or bumped. The Glock trigger maintains a constant 5.5 lb. trigger pull, avoiding the jerky transition from DA to SA. The slimmer design reduces the overall measurements of the Glock, and combined with a lower weight presents a very desirable sidearm option. In addition, the Glock 19 can be purchased for nearly half the cost of the Sig Sauer P226.
Glock 19 vs. Sig Sauer P226
The Glock 19 is the mid-size 9mm Glock, having measurements about 0.5″ shorter than the full-size Glock 17. The Glock 19 has been one of Glock’s most popular handguns with over 5 million sold. The Sig Sauer P226 (in particular the Mk25) is a full-size 9mm pistol and has also shared a high level of popularity. For the record, the BlueSheepDog Crew find both firearms to be excellent choices in sidearms, and each has their distinct benefits and take-aways.
A SEAL Sig Sauer P226 Mk25, with anchor marker on the slide.
In the chart below I’ve displayed the specifications for both pistols so you can view their differences and any advantages one may have over the other:
| Specifications | Glock 19 | Sig Sauer P226 Mk25 |
|---|---|---|
| Slide Material | Steel | Steel |
| Slide Finish | Tenifer-Like Treatment | Nitron® Treatment |
| Frame Material | Nylon-Based Polymer | Aluminum Alloy |
| Frame Finish | N/A | Hard Anodized |
| Action | Safe-Action Striker-Fired | DA/SA |
| Caliber | 9mm | 9mm |
| Overall Length | 7.28" | 7.7" |
| Barrel Length | 4.01" | 4.4" |
| Height | 4.99" | 5.5" |
| Width | 1.18" | 1.5" |
| Weight | 23.65 oz. (Unloaded) | 34.4 oz. (Unloaded) |
| Capacity | 15+1 | 15+1 |
| Sights | Tritium Night Sights | SIGLITE Night Sights |
| Sight Radius | 6.02" | 6.3" |
| Safeties | Trigger, (2) Internal | Decocker, (1) Internal |
| Trigger Pull | 5.5 lbs. | 10.0 lbs. (DA); 4.4 lbs. (SA) |
| Accessory Rail | Yes | Yes |
| MSRP | $599.99 | $1,166.00 |
The Movements of Glock
Though Glock has earned a very high reputation for a quality firearm that is both simplistic and accurate, recent trends around the world have seen some countries, law enforcement agencies, and individuals moving away from the polymer pistol that revolutionized the handgun market. In Europe, a few countries have moved to different sidearms, while a few others have actually begun using Glocks, like the British Royal Marines.
In the United States, several major and minor law enforcement agencies have moved away from Glocks; many for the F.B.I. Request For Proposal on a new sidearm for the agency’s 10,000 Special Agents. As written, the RFP appears tailor-made for the SIG SAUER P320, polymer, striker-fired pistol in 9mm. If the move comes to fruition, the Bureau would be moving away from the Glock 22 and Glock 23 pistols they have fielded for over 10 years.
Glock has an amazing 65% market share with American law enforcement.
However, at the same time that some are moving away from Glocks, there are even more who appear to be moving towards the iconic brand. Glock is still estimated to own a powerful 65% of the American law enforcement market, and there is good reason. The Glock is a simple pistol to teach, use, and maintain.
Final Thoughts
Though I do not own a SIG SAUER I have fired many over the years. They are some of the best handguns in the world. The craftsmanship, quality, accuracy, and ergonomics of a SIG SAUER are in the highest of the pistol market. SIG pistols are noted for their smooth action during cycling and for good triggers.
Glock is a proven firearm design. The simplicity (and brilliance) of its design produces a firearm with only 34 parts, yet is highly efficient and accurate. The only external safety is the trigger bar safety, making the firearm ready to use without a second thought when presented on target.
The lighter weight over heavier all-steel pistols is a definite benefit, as is the consistent trigger pull. The trigger reset is tactile and audible, and when trained with properly, can produce incredibly fast follow-up shots that remain very accurate.
The Author during high-risk vehicle stop training with his issued Glock 22.
For transparency, I own three Glock pistols personally, and I have carried a Glock 22 while on duty for the last 16 years. When we first began the move to Glock I was not a supporter, even though we were issued bulky Smith & Wesson 4566 pistols at the time. My first two pistols were S&W and I was familiar with their DA/SA actions and safeties.
I wish I would have known then what I know now.
Since transitioning to Glocks my proficiency in firearms has dramatically improved as I continue to increase my skills at grip, trigger pull, trigger reset, and reloads. The Smith & Wesson would have never allowed me to reach where I am now.
There are many newer pistols on the market that are outstanding options. We have posted on the Heckler & Koch VP-9 and VP-40, which is an excellent example. The Smith & Wesson M&P line has made serious gains with American law enforcement, and the new Ruger American Pistol may also see an impressive
About Navy SEALs
The U.S. Navy SEALs are considered by many to be the premier Special Forces group in the world, even topping Delta Force within the U.S. Military. The British SAS and German GSG-9 were the modern world’s first and best anti-terrorist special forces groups, and the U.S. Special Forces learned much from their European brothers. Russia has Spetsnaz, the French have the Foreign Legion and other units, and China has special forces as well. However, American technology and raw military might, coupled with an increased global presence in combat zones, has provided U.S. SOCOM units the distinct advantage over all of the others in both combat skills and equipment.
SEALs have deployed to all 7 continents in every type of weather condition (photo by SEALs)
Within SOCOM Navy SEALs have the advantage of operating within the structure of the world’s largest Navy, which maintains a presence across the globe. When missions require insertion into unfriendly areas, where there is no friendly presence, it is easier and more practical to use SEALs from Naval vessels, than other Special Forces using more airborne or ground methods.
The SEALs have played a pivotal role in the Global War on Terror, including actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. The tragic “Lone Survivor” and “American Sniper” stories detail some incredible actions of these brave warriors. In addition, they recently ended the hostage situation involving the Captain of the Maersk Alabama by simultaneously shooting the four terrorists using sniper rifles from the fan deck of a U.S. Navy destroyer.
It will be interesting to see what Glock 19 holster the Navy picks to match the gun.
ThinBlueFlorida.com says
Aaron, I am issued a Sig Sauer P226R and a Glock 27, the former for uniformed duty and the latter for my current plainclothes assignment. I may be biased in having carried the Sig on the road and in SWAT for over 20 years, but I like the feel and function of this full-sized pistol when the going gets dicey. The P226’s 34 ounce weight soaks up some of the .40 S&W’s snappiness and I have never had buyer’s remorse when depressing the trigger. This said, I own two Glocks in .40 and am sold on their reliability.
For my paycheck, I have not had to kit-up for an extended mission in an exotic land, so if every pound counted and I had to choose, it may be the Austrian banger for me. I trust the SEALs know what they need.
Randall
Aaron E says
Randall there is no doubt that Sig Sauer makes some outstanding pistols. Though the reports are not complete or confirmed, I imagine the consistent trigger pull over a DA/SA type action had some serious consideration in the selection process. Glocks are definitely work horses, and with the maritime spring cups should do fine for the SEALs in their waterborne environment.
Shel says
OH NO ! Say it ain’t so… I’ll keep my old slab sided 1911a1 .45 acp thank you very much. Only semi auto pistol been doing the job for over 100 years.
Aaron says
Shel, I know many who feel the same way. The 1911 is a proven combat sidearm. I think this decision is a middle ground approach. The Sig P226 and P229 are fine pistols, but they are heavy and have external controls that slow their readiness.
The Glock is not the perfect sidearm, but it is a proven and durable sidearm. It reduces the weight, without sacrificing capacity, and is a proven shooter. Those are all attributes that would satisfy the needs of our nation’s elite.
Jimney123 says
…and I bet you still believe the earth is still flat…ouff….45…so old school.
Shel says
so old school that Glock now makes in 1911…..
Aaron says
Huh?
Jimney123 says
That’s a business decision. There are a lot of ignorant, old school folks who still like the .45 because of the emotional attachment to the firearm. But our elite forces, who know best, have fully rejected the use of .45 in all future operations. Almost without exception, they’ve moved to a higher capacity 9mm firearm.
Shel says
9 mm is still puny. I will stick to my old slab side .45 with 8 Rd mags never felt undergunned.
Brad Carter says
Seriously? Lol.. I own 9mm, .40s, .45s and a slew of others. I love a 9mm but if I have a choice I’d want 10+1 .45 auto rounds over 14 or more 9mm rounds. To say a .45 auto is ‘old school’ is ridiculous. Yea it’s been around forever, but it’s still one of the best performing rounds even in the modern era. If it weren’t people like Wilson Combat and Nighthawk wouldnt stay in business selling 3,000 dollar 1911s. I just know I hope if I’m ever in a gun fight the dude is throwing 9mm at me and not .45s.
Jimney123 says
Baby Boomers are the second largest generation in the country. They have disposable income and tend to be OLD SCHOOL when it comes to firearms. Hence the Wilson Combat (highly overpriced) trophy .45 that is no more effective, in most peoples hands, than a Rock Island Armory .45 costing $600.00. Ask any combat vet…in a tactical, combat situation whether or not he’d want 10+1 or 16+1 and they’ll take the extra rounds every time. Tactical movement requires cover fire and having those extra rounds could keep heads down if you’re no longer using an M4. And your last comment is ridiculous…9mm has a further effective range, more penetrating potential against barriers and deeper penetration in the human body than a .45. Penetration is the FBI’s test for ballistic effectivenes. Your comments are typical of the old school train of thought concerning modern day ballistics (ignoring the advancement in cartridges).
Brad Carter says
I’m no baby boomer.. let’s be clear. I have no disposable income not with 2 boys under the age of 7. I have no modern ballistics equipment or anything crazy. I do have loads of experience shooting firearms daily though and I’ve seen what rounds do to gelatin, game, etc. I would rather have 11 rounds of .45 acp any day. Maybe it’s my confidence in shot placement idk. But I know my rounds will count for something. I dont need 2 9mm shots. I firmly believe my 1 well placed .45 acp round will do the job. I own multiple 9mm handguns. I always hear the speed argument and that a .45 move’s too slow. Since when do people run as fast as a .45? A doped up maniac isn’t going to run faster or move faster. But adrenaline may allow him to need 3 or 4 9mm to put him down. Everyone has their philosophies and comforts. I’m not knocking the 9mm. I own many and think it’s a fantastic round. I find it much easier to conceal. But if someone is breaking into my home? I’m grabbing the .45. As for Wilson Combat, no they don’t do anything a standard Rock River 1911 will do. I have no way of buying a new one. But an old man left his Wilson Combat to me in his will. Id have to say I can tell a difference in the WC than my Colt or Para. Just my 2 cents holding and owning all 3.
Jimney123 says
According the most recent FBI tests, the reason why the FBI went back to 9mm from .40 is because the 9mm provided superior wound channel and penetration to the .40 AND the .45. So although I know you have it stuck in your mind that you only need one .45 and you’d need two 9mm’s but unless you hit a vital organ or the central nervous system, neither round will stop anyone. And with more penetrating power and more controllable recoil, the 9mm is the superior choice…at least according to the FBI. Personally, I carry a 10mm.
Aaron E says
Cite your source! I’ve read extensively on the FBI tests. They DID NOT say the 9mm “provided superior wound channel and penetration” to the .40 and .45. What they DID say is modern 9mm hollow points have improved enough to be roughly equal to the performance of the .40 and .45 (outside of intermediate barriers). With that in mind a lower recoil pistol with cheaper ammunition makes sense.
BTW – 10mm is awesome!
Brad Carter says
Yes, I’ve read that data somewhere. Calibers are purely what you feel comfortable and confident with. Or that’s the advice I give. I carry a Sig Sauer p227 carry in .45 all the time now. I just love the gun and being around 1911s my entire life I’m comfortable with the .45 as much as anything. My 2nd choice is a HK USP compact in .40. Again, its just a weapon that works for me. I have a few 9mm and have always wants a 10mm. I actually may see about getting a Glock in 10mm. It’s a fantastic round. As far as the fbi research is concerned I’d rather carry a 10mm than a 9mm.
Shel says
1911 still dropping people after 106 years
Marcus says
How many times have I read where people are shot 15 to 18 times in. the chest and arms with a 9 mm and lived, how many have been shot in the head numerous times and lived. How many have been shot in the chest and head with a 45 ACP and lived?
Aaron says
Marcus you have hit on one of the oldest debates in firearms history. However, the real answer is shot placement. No matter what cartridge is being used, the shot placement is a more definitive answer to “stopping power” than the caliber itself. President Reagan was nearly killed by a .22 caliber bullet. While the officer in the below story hit a attempted murderer 14 times with .45 ACP (6 reportedly in “fatal” locations) and the suspect lived.
https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
Jason Eldefonso says
So, glock slides are not stainless. And they don’t use tenifer anymore, haven’t for years, and tenifer isn’t a finish, it’s a surface hardening “treatment” before applying their finish. Which is moot, because…again … they haven’t used it in years….
Aaron says
Jason its true Glock stopped using Tenifer many years ago, because cyanide was a by-product. Cyanide is highly restricted under U.S. EPA rules, and all but banned by the EU. Glock switched to a melonite-type alternative produced by the same company they used for Tenifer. The end result is actually a slight bit better than the original Tenifer.
The final process meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. With that level of protection the Glocks should be more than capable of handling the rigors of the SEAL Teams.
Aaron E says
Jason its true Glock stopped using Tenifer many years ago, because cyanide was a by-product. Cyanide is highly restricted under U.S. EPA rules, and all but banned by the EU. Glock switched to a melonite-type alternative produced by the same company they used for Tenifer. The end result is actually slightly better than the original Tenifer.
The final process meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. With that level of protection the Glocks should be more than capable of handling the rigors of the SEAL Teams.
Jason Eldefonso says
Till those uncoated internals rust out from the salt water. Should be interesting to see how all this plays out. Glock pistols are crap these days. Mim parts, the finish is too thin and prone to scratches easily, accuracy isn’t what it used to be either. I’ve owned about 7 dating as far back as 16 years ago. They really are a shadow of their former reputation.
Aaron E says
That would take much longer than you suggest. Once out of the water the moisture would dry fairly quickly. There would be a small residual salt content, but once the mission is complete a standard cleaning and maintenance would be accomplished, so this should not provide a major problem.
I agree that the massive Glock machine has not necessarily maintained the highest standards over the last few years, but the majority of Glocks perform well and as designed.
Jason Eldefonso says
The mk25 has coated parts, so no worries at all. Saltwater corrodes a lot faster than fresh. No telling what that would mean for glocks, but the mk25 is nearly impervious by design
Aaron E says
I don’t disagree with the salt water corrosion. I understand that the Mk25 has coated parts, but it is also much heavier.
Unless the internal parts of the Glock are exposed to prolonged exposure to salt water without maintenance they should be fine. Typically SEAL’s and others around salt water are not in a continual exposure to salt water. Proper maintenance at the end of the exposure/mission should be fine.
The “maritime” spring cups allow the salt water to escape the internals upon extraction from the sea. Though a small amount of salt will be deposited on the internals, a detailed post-mission cleaning/lubrication should be fine.
The Special Operations forces have already done extensive testing of the Glock. This endorsement is not simply on the administrative side, but takes into account the operators who have already fielded the Glocks and found them to be proficient.
Brad Carter says
I’m not questioning Glock’s durability or it being a fantastic weapon. They are very efficent handguns top to bottom. I’ve never shot a bad glock or even one that wasn’t up to par. I own a glock. They are lighter than say a p226. But the p226 is a more accurate piece. And it’s not as if the p226 weighs 5 lbs. In fact it’s a fairly light feeling guns to carry and shoot. If it”s me and I’m a navy seal I’m going to want a HK or Sig over a Glock anyday. Just my opinion. But for a combat pistol there is more to thonk about rather than weight and price. Imo
Aaron E says
You make some great points Brad. In the military the pistol is very much considered a secondary weapon. Rifles are the primary weapon. If you look at the selection in that light, it’s not so hard to see why Special Ops (SEAL’s included) would see the benefits of the simple Glock.
Lighter weight, less expensive, very durable, and reasonably accurate. SEAL’s train extensively, including their firearms. A slight difference in smooth action and accuracy, for less weight and no external safeties, may be absolutely worth it to these operators.
Brad Carter says
And thats what most don’t understand. Handguns used by Navy seals are a sidearm where most of their combat fighting will be done with a rifle. So figuring that in the Glock is a very good choice. Considering it’s going to be carried more than wielded it makes since if a lighter gun is available and durable like Glock. I’m sure some may want to stick with a Sig or HK and I know I would, but that’s what’s beautiful about the firearm world. We have options 🙂
John Wisch says
Why are the Glock 43’s having corrosion issues on their finishes ?
Aaron E says
John I’ve only heard a few scant reports on blogs, and some are “highly suspicious”.
However, the melonite process (though chemically bonding) is ultimately an exterior finish on the surface. Depending on the process used, depends on how deep the treatment reaches. As with any mass produced item, there is a possibility that a few slides are not being treated properly and are therefore susceptible to rust/corrosion.
I’ve heard of some saying that persons with a very high pH sweat can begin to break down the melonite and start causing pitting – then rust. I’ve only found a few reports on that, and there are many millions of Glocks in the world right now.
In addition, non-treated sights can begin to rust and the rust will build up around the slide making it appear the slide is also rusting. My original Glock (with non-coated Tritium sights) had this problem. A quick swipe with a cleaning brush fixed the problem.
I have used and been around 100’s of Glocks for 16 years and I’ve never seen any significant rust or corrosion. Internal parts are not coated and have occasionally seen problems when an officer got drenched and did not clean their Glock afterward, but the slides and barrels have been fine.
John Wisch says
Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ve seen one locally.
The pistol was sent back to Glock on a R.A. It is there now.
I’m interested to see how it turns out.
Thanks again.
Aaron E says
Well it could be rumors are proving true, where quality control is slipping at Glock. Thanks for the info.
Jimney123 says
Glock is a very simple design that’s cheap to make but who on this thread knows someone who owns a Glock that hasn’t replaced half the OEM parts with aftermarket parts. Like Berretta, Glock’s weaknesses will be exposed once they see heavy use over years.
Aaron E says
I have 2 duty-issued Glocks that are standard issue by policy. I also own 3 Glocks. One Glock is over 10 years old so I’m about to purchase new night sights, but otherwise its factory standard. Same for the other 2. Only thing I’m considering changing is to an Ameriglo colored front night sight for better sighting, and the Vicker’s Tactical flared magazine base plates. Nothing else.
Jimney123 says
Now compare your issue Glock to the one they’ll provide SOCOM soldiers..I bet they will be different Glocks in many ways.
Aaron E says
Well they’ll definitely have the Maritime spring cups, but you’re right, there might be a few other goodies as well.
Aaron E says
Though the sights are being replaced, they were the original night sights (Glock option) that came with the pistol, and lasted for 10 years just fine. Any Tritium-based night sights will eventually degrade. So it was simply time to change out after a decade of use, and not due to poor quality from the beginning.
I have used standard OEM Glock magazine base plates for 17 years without any problems. In that time I’ve had (1) magazine show signs of failure. That one had extensive use, and probably just needs a new spring. That is something that any magazine used extensively over time will need. The Vicker’s base plates are very nice due to the flared sides with serrations for better finger grip. The change was a personal choice, and as stated, the OEM base plates did just fine for my 17 years of Glock use.
Richard says
I own several Glock pistols that have run for thousands of rounds on the OEM parts without a problem. What weaknesses are you expecting to be revealed in the Glock pistols?
Jimney123 says
Glock’s are notorious for trigger spring failures, broken locking block pins, slide stop lever and slide stop spring failures. Now most people I know replace those parts right from the get go to stronger aftermarket parts. Understand that military weapons are exposed to a lot of rounds and to extreme environments (i.e. sand). The M9 was the most reliable pistol ever tested before it was fielded, yet flaws were still eventually exposed. When you have that many firearms being exposed to extreme conditions all at once, statistics catch up to you.
Aaron E says
I agree any firearm, exposed to extreme conditions, and 1000’s of rounds, will show wear and even experience failures. However, I completely disagree Glocks are “notorious” for trigger spring failures, broken locking block pins, slide stop levers, and stop spring failures. For 16 years my police department of 140+ officers has used Glock 22 .40 cal. The worst we have had associated to Glock failures are occasional pin breaks. I’m talking 10-12 pins, over 180 Glocks, over 16 years – that’s it. (We did have a squib load of bad ammo cause a barrel bulge once).
My SWAT Glock (Gen 3) is nearly 10 years old and has fired nearly 20,000 rounds in that time. This fall, I had a locking block pin snap in half (unknown to me) during a 4-hour extensive combat pistol course of around 600 shots. I experienced 3 malfunctions. It wasn’t until maintenance that night that I found the broken pin. The Glock still worked, for the most part, despite the broken pin. I’ve had ZERO other problems.
I’d say 10 years, 20,000+ rounds, and one broken pin is more than hardy enough!
Brad Carter says
I have personally owned 5 different glocks. I own 3 right now. Two have had some reAL work ran through them. The other I’ve rarely shot. I can back that statement. Neither of the 2 I shoot often have ran without some sort of oem part needing replaced. Aftermarket parts are why I recommend Glock to friends. You can eventually have a nearly perfect hand gun. But is there such a thing? I’ve ran round after round through a Bersa aND it’s never once had any sort of problem. I’ve seen 900 dollar guns need work in half the time.
Jimney123 says
Bersa’s are very underrated. Most people don’t realize they are military spec’d for the Argentina Army. Hard to find a better handgun for the money.
Brad Carter says
They really are fantasting weapons. I first seen an Ultra Compact pro in .40 sw and it just felt so good. The grip was a bit short, but the magazine extension makes it feel just right. It’s an all metal gun and it probably will need some sort of cerakote type coating over it eventually, but it’s an accurate piece of work and it’s craftsmanship is very solid. The trigger is very good for what it is. It’s not the pistol of my Sigs, hks, or even Glocks, but the Berea is a fine firearm considering it went home with me for less than $380. I recommend them to people all the time
Richard says
Can you cite a reputable source for your comment “Glock’s are notorious for trigger spring failures, broken locking block pins, slide stop lever and slide stop spring failures.”
Jimney123 says
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/are-glocks-truly-perfection
Richard says
There’s a difference between Greg’s article (all guns fail, and when pushed hard enough the Glock will fail – typically in these locations) and “Glock’s are notorious for…”
Jimney123 says
Not really.
Jimney123 says
Richard, why is BlueSheepdog.com rejecting my replies? Is this an open forum or is it a PRO-Glock site trying to suppress negative comments about Glocks?
Richard says
Slow down. The commenting system filters for spam and profanity. Sometimes things get caught in the filter and have to be manually approved. None of your posts have been edited or rejected.
ThatGunGuy says
Just to clarify something, I think the SEALs only adopted the MK25 model P226 in the last 5-6 years. Before that, they used other SIG models like the old P226 Navy and sometimes different, privately-purchased models. For example, an acquaintance of mine in the SEALs used a P226 Combat for a time, while Chris Kyle said in his autobiography that he used a .45 ACP P220 during his second tour onward.
Aaron says
You may be correct on the exact MK25 model. I know the SEAL’s have had a Sig option for a long time however. In regards to Chris Kyle carrying a .45 ACP, it is fairly well known that most of Special Operations are allowed to choose their own preference for firearms within a a fairly narrow group of approved firearms.
Aaron E says
You may be correct on the exact MK25 model. I know the SEAL’s have had a Sig option for a long time, but it is quite probable they have adapted as Sig came out with new models/improvements over the years. In regards to Chris Kyle carrying a .45 ACP, it is fairly well known that most Special Operations field personnel are allowed to choose their own preference for firearms within a a fairly narrow group of approved firearms.
Brad Carter says
I understand the price point and issuing a fantastic handgun like the Glock is a good choice if you are supplying the entire military. You can nearly buy Glock 2 to 1 over any of Sig Sauer’s P lineup. But unlike the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines there aren’t millions of Navy Seals. If I’m the director of the seals or any other special forces unit I’m going to get what they want. No matter how much I like my Glock or its price point, simple design and work rate my Sig p226, p227c, and p229 are better built weapons. They are more accurate, smoother, and feel so much better than my personal Glock or anyone I’ve ever shot. And in all honesty the price isn’t what made this decision for a team like the seals. I would imagine some of them would rather carry a G19, and I’d imagine some have been for awhile now. I could also imagine some of them made the switch. But I would also imagine some have been carrying the p226 and will continue to carry the p226. Then again, I have no doubt some are still carrying HK’s as well. If I’m a navy seal and have hk, sig or Glock as my choices I’m taking an HK or sig any say over the Glock. But if Glock is my only option it’s certainly not a poor option. Glock make fine handguns. But there are so many makING fine weapons these days. The custom 1911 world aside, HK and Sig Sauer produce the best P style handguns on the planet. If I’m a seal that’s what I’m packing with me.
Aaron E says
HK and Sig make very good pistols, and I’m quite confident if a SEAL adamantly wants to carry another approved option they can and will. Glocks are simple, reliable, and accurate. They may not be as smooth as HK and Sig, but they are much cheaper as well. Price was not the main reason the Glock was chosen, but its a nice benefit to be cheaper.
The SEAL decision is not isolated. It is more of an overall Special Operations Command move. Army Delta and Rangers have been or are going Glock. FBI has renewed with Glock, though with a slightly modified version without finger grooves and with a flared mag well (not military, but Federal). The Marines MARSOC has gone Glock. There is talk of dropping the Army’s expensive Modular Handgun System testing and simply purchasing Glocks, and the Marines are considering the Glock for all forces not just MARSOC. I think this overall Special Operations Command move is what has heavily influenced this decision, and from operator input as well.
As for 9mm vs. other calibers, I don’t disagree. I like my .40 S&W just fine. Some swear by the .45 ACP, while others tout the 9mm. All I’m saying is that 9mm has grown up tremendously over the last 10 years, and considering many combatants are spending 3-5 shots per target with a pistol, it may simply be tactically advantageous to have more rounds in the mag – therefore 9mm may win out by capacity.
Richard says
Discussion and disagreement are acceptable. Demeaning others is not acceptable. Not only does it show your ignorance, it also fails to advance your point.
I don’t care what you do on your own property, but here I request everyone treat others with basic decency and respect. No additional warnings will be given.
Jimney123 says
Judge and Jury, huh? Nobody is demeaning anyone, maybe a few elbows in jest but if you’re too thin skinned to take that, then maybe you should control content that is more inline with your personal sensitivities. But then, don’t call it a forum, call it a despotic site which advances NO ONE’s knowledge.
Richard says
This is a website developed for law enforcement officers, not an open forum. We encourage participation by everyone, including those who are not employed in police work.
Making derogatory comments toward anyone, including police officers (in general) or my staff (specifically) is not acceptable. I’m guessing you wouldn’t want me showing up to your business and start demeaning your co-workers or customers.
Since rules of common decency don’t work for you, I encourage you to find somewhere else to spend your time. You are no longer welcome here.
Brad Carter says
Sorry I didn’t know it was for law enforcement only. I’m an electrician by trade but give free weapon training to anyone who want it. Whether it be handgun, cqb or long range training at the range I built or learning how to use a knife in combat/self defense situations.. I’m definitely not a policeman or with any affiliated law enforcement office. I just believe in the 2nd amendment and want to help any law abiding citizen learn to protect themselves. Plus I love gun, ammo and knife talk. But I didn’t realize I was doing it on a site strictly for law enforcement. I hope I didn’t cause too much problem. It was just shooting the bull about guns for me. No harm intended. Sorry
Richard says
Hi Brad,
The comment was not directed to you, rather someone else who began posting profanity. Sorry for the confusion.
While the target audience of BlueSheepdog is the law enforcement community, all citizens are welcome. All I ever ask is everyone stay civil and act as if we were sitting in each other’s homes talking about things.
You’re very welcome to continue to post!
Richard
Brad Carter says
Okay my mistake on the confusion. Thank you!
Aaron E says
Brad we welcome you to our site, and encourage you to continue reading. Valid debate is encouraged here. We just want to keep the dialogue civil, without petty insults to try to support arguments (Jimney123 not you). Disagreements are fine, and build the quality of the content. We can all learn from each other’s experiences.
As for your firearms and self-defense instruction – Well Done! We need more citizens taking responsibility for their own well-being (and others). Learning how to shoot and carry a firearm are very important to that goal. We are NRA Life members here, and huge supporters of the 2nd Amendment. We have been excited to see more States pass “shall issue” laws on concealed carry permits, and an overall greater expansion on firearms training and opportunities.
Law-abiding citizens can have a tremendous impact on crime and victimization in their communities by becoming responsible firearm carriers. Though a small percentage of officers (chiefs) are in favor of more gun control and prohibitions against civilian carry of firearms, we are not with them. In fact, a survey conducted by PoliceOne.com found a vast majority of the over 15,000 law enforcement respondents were very much pro gun for civilians, and anti-gun control.
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/6188462-PoliceOnes-2013-Gun-Policy-Law-Enforcement-Survey-Results-Executive-Summary/
Brad Carter says
Lol we all enjoy a good debate. Having opinions and disagreements is nothing but a healthy environment. Thin skinned folks are hard to debate with.
Aaron E says
Debate is great and encouraged. Petty insults, with no basis, in an attempt to bolster your argument has no place here.
Brad Carter says
I understand. I guess I just didn’t see any insults or even knew I had insulted anyone. For that I apologize
Aaron E says
SWAT Glock – YES! 100% OEM. Here are the conditions my Glock has performed in: 100+ degrees with upwards of 90% humidity; near 0 degrees with and without snow; rain – light and heavy; snow – light and heavy; dust; mud; vegetable oil (a training cycle to mimic being bloody); and more. And all of my statements are still true. Until 2 years ago when my Department was able to build an indoor range, 95% of our training was outside with whatever weather conditions happened to fall on range day.
I’ve carried Glocks for 16 years. I like Glocks. I know there are several pistols that have nicer features and smoother actions than Glocks. However, with proper training, I know my Glock will perform and compete with the other options.
Your statement on put them in military is purely subjective unless you’d like to produce some hard evidence otherwise. Obviously the United States Special Operations Command differs in your opinion (SEAL’s, Rangers, Delta, MARSOC).
Weapons maintenance is a very big deal in the military, and especially in Special Ops so the comment you made seems off base. SWAT is typically better at maintaining firearms than standard Patrol officers, but they shoot more so …
You’re final statement on SWAT guys starts to reveal your critical side. Are some SWAT guys out of shape and probably shouldn’t be SWAT – yes. However, many are the best of the best, physically, mentally, and with firearms proficiency. In many cases SWAT has performed admirably in the worst case scenarios. Even military Special Ops spends most of their time training (on paper) to be ready for the real mission.
Danzo says
Politics and cost outweighed needs and wants in this decision.
Michael Fallon says
Both handguns are superbly made firearms, either one is an excellent choice. Overall though, the Sig’s p226 quality is better than the Glock. The reason Glock was chosen, is it’s simplicity and being much less expensive. The learning curve for a Glock is much shorter. It is easier to clean an maintain. Plus the Sig is a bigger, more bulky gun. You have to learn two trigger strokes (DA to SA) on the Sig. The Sig needs more lubrication, with it’s long rails on the frame and slide. The Glock actually runs fine with little lubrication.
Dimitri Anton says
Very thoruogh article. I would like to add a correction however in your comparison chart between the two pistols. The Sig uses an aluminum alloy, not steel, frame.
Aaron says
Thank you Dimitri I’m working on getting that corrected.
Aaron E says
Corrected! Thanks Dimitri.
Dimitri Anton says
My pleasure. I enjoyed the article, please keep’em comin’. By the way, do you know what generation of G19 was adopted? I remember initially reading somewhere that they went with the Gen 3, the logic being that the Gen 3 RSA was less susceptible to debris and other detritus, and far easier to clear should it become contaminated, allowing for a fouled weapon to be brought back into action much quicker. I have not however been able to find anything definite to substantiate that claim.
Aaron E says
Dimitri everything I’ve read and found has indicated the Gen 3. This is probably the best source to confirm the Gen 3 being the selection. PartTarget is a government equipment supplier, and they have Gen 3 parts listed.
http://www.parttarget.com/Glock-Inc_nsn-parts.html
George McGnarly says
What happened? They never switched Why would they switch to an inferior gun anyways?
Aaron E says
George the Glock 19 is an approved firearm for SEAL deployments. However, it appears the Navy did not mandate this sidearm immediately. Rather the Glock 19 has been included on the approved firearms list for use. This was the same for the Sig Sauer pistols – though many SEALS used them, others chose options from the approved list. However, it also appears no new Sig Sauers will be purchased, and those in service will eventually be replaced by the Glock 19.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/special-forces/navy-seal-weapons.asp
https://loadoutroom.com/17950/glock-19-hands-navy-seals/
http://www.taloinc.com/glock-firearms/navy-seals-foundation-glock-model-19-1of-1000
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/sig-sauer-p226-the-navys-seals-gun-choice-soon-be-replaced-24782?page=2
George McGnarly says
Yeah I just read up on it. The Glock was chosen because they knew it would sit on the armory shelves. The 226 was superior in every aspect but $300 more per pistol. SEALS have the option of using their own pistols hence why the navy switching to the g19 makes sense.
John Graham says
Have not seen the new Gen 5 run through some of the rigorous “fail” tests of the older versions. Will be interesting to see in the next several years if there are more failures from them, as they are built with some tighter fitting parts (barrels specifically). Have owned Glocks since Gen 2 (22 years) and not a one has had any failures of parts. Granted, I bought a new one every 5 or 6 years for duty use.
Aaron says
There are a few independent/civilian tests out there, but you are right the results are mixed. This review from PoliceOne.com had no failures among 7 shooters, 1000 rounds, and multiple types/brands of ammunition:
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/457929006-6-things-to-know-about-the-Glock-Gen5-G17/
This review from TheFirearmBlog (TFB) only did 250 rounds, but included dirt and water submersion – no fails.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/07/glock-17-gen5-mini-torture-test-featuring-new-sorepie-test/
However, this one had some poor results. I would note the sand immersion was conducted with the magazine out instead of inserted like most tests. Any semi-auto pistol with the magazine well jammed with dirt/sand is not going to perform well. The simple mechanics of only having so much space for the magazine to fit and function. Your call.
https://youtu.be/ZR0Ss3yVV5I
Sepfian Herdyanto says
Thanks for the information, anyway.
I just wondering, why they (Navy Seals) choose Glock 19, not full size Glock 17, either!?
just my cents question, thanks
Aaron says
Sepfian, the announcement doesn’t mention the reasoning for the 19 over the 17. It may simply be the 19 is better suited for load out giving SEALs a pistol less likely to snag on items in close quarters, and still a good capacity.
dr tom moore says
As a pathologist who has performed thousands of of post gunshot autopsies in a major city, I carry a Glock 19 with Gold Dot 124+P ammunition. I have seen the damage of multiple calibers
Aaron says
Thanks for the reply doctor!
AJ says
Respectfully, I couldn’t care less what the seals use. I’ll take a Sig over a Glock 7 days a week.